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October 12th, 2013 |

Bus Stop Disagreement

bus plan 0

There was a meeting of the Local Highways Panel – and a disagreement over a bus stop in Rayleigh

A few months ago County Highways had been concerned that buses waiting at the bus stop in Hullbridge Road opposite the Hambro Parade shops might be delaying traffic. They suggested moving the bus stop onto the area of grass slightly to the south:

bus plan 1

(You can click on the plan to enlarge it). However at this week’s meeting County Highways officers explained that there wasn’t enough space to do this safely (it is on a bend) and now didn’t think moving it would make much difference anyway. They set out a series of options:

  • doing nothing,
  • removing the bus stop,
  • removing the bus stop and replacing it with two others,
  • removing the bus stop and replacing it with one other.
  • In the end, panel voted to remove the bus stop, and replace it with one new stop to the north, near Ferndale Road:

    bus plan 2

    There is £70,000 allocated in the budget for this (although the actual cost should be less) Chris Black argued against this, and suggested that things should be left as they are. He said that although the traffic in Rawreth Lane was very bad, this work wouldn’t make much difference ; the new stop wouldn’t be usable for buses coming along Rawreth Lane, making it more difficult for bus users in the vicinity ; it was an unnecessary spending of money.

    However most of the other councillors felt it was worth doing , and agreed to move the bus stop. Rather unusually, voting split along party lines, with 5 Conservatives and 1 UKIP voting for, and 1 Lib Dem (Chris Black) and 1 Green (Michael Hoy) voting against.

    33 Responses to “Bus Stop Disagreement”

    1. 1
      Carole:

      I cannot believe that this bus stop has suddenly become an issue. What about all the stops going along Downhall Road ? Do these cause cars to have to either stop and wait 2 minutes (to let the non-car user travel) or go past the stationary bus if they hasn’t got the patience to wait.
      The No20 bus isn’t every 5 minutes , we’re lucky if they arrive every 20 minutes. The Officials want to waste good money?
      I suggest they do a report YET AGAIN in looking at the JUNCTION /MINI ROUNDABOUT. Thats the problem , a bad road layout. Put that Rawreth Lane /Hullbridge Rd slip in and a lot of congestion will EASE. Leave the stop where it is. It’s not the problem.

    2. 2
      Jane Lydford:

      I agree with Carole.

      This is a bad decision. A waste of time and money. There are so many good things that the council could spend ‘our’ money on.

      “the new stop wouldn’t be usable for buses coming along Rawreth Lane, making it more difficult for bus users in the vicinity”

      I think it is worse than that because by taking away that bus stop, passengers that want to use that bus line will have to walk up to Downhall Road or walk down Rawreth Lane. The stop where it gave people a choice. Were both bus companies consulted or represented at the meeting? Does the council / decision makers not understand that this will badly effect any company that tries to run a bus service along Rawreth Lane?

      Why does everything have to become a battle for common sense? I moved to Rayleigh because I like it, I just wish that the Council / decision makers would stop making bad decisions, that affect people that live here. You keep ruining things that make Rayleigh a nice place to live in. I voted for people to make good positive decisions on my behalf. Please spend the £70,000 on something worth spending it on.

      2 minutes wait for a bus to move along is nothing compared with sitting in a queue stuck in Rawreth Lane. Spend your, nope ‘our money’ on finding a solution to that one. I bet the councilors that voted on moving the bus stop don’t ever get on a bus.

      I understand that there are different Councils Rayleigh / Rochford District etc. but I don’t know why Council decisions seem to be attempting to spoil what is good about Rayleigh.

    3. 3
      Graham Osborn:

      It could just be the bus’s are not the issues, the issues being there are too many vehicles using this part of the road network at different times of the day. as to many new house are being built with no new main roads to go with them. or no changes to the road network to increases capacity

    4. 4
      Jane Lydford:

      Also have the people that make the decisions taken into consideration the adverse effect moving a bus stop away from the Hambro parade of shops? The buses are not a problem. Maybe a tad annoying if a person is running late but that could also be true of cyclists and people riding horses. A tad annoying if you are running late does not justify spending £70,000.

      Putting local shops and bus company to Loose money is wrong. People should not loose their livelihood just because a bus annoyed someone in a car. Sort out Rawreth Lane. The traffic is only going to get worse.

      When all these 100s of houses get built there won’t be a bus company running down Rawreth Lane because it will have been running at a loss or gone out of business.

      Were the shop owners and bus companies that will be affected consulted?

    5. 5
      Greenbelt:

      I agree that this is a ridiculous and pointless decision especially for drivers approaching from Hullbridge as it is only moving the problem from one location to the another. It will not prevent any queues forming. Also, what about the existing bus stop opposite the one in question, will that remain or can we add another £70,000 to to costings to relocate that. Bus stops for both directions on a route should ,in my opinion, be adjacent one another. Not spaced some distance apart and with a mini roundabout between them as in this case. Finally, the pedestrian crossing at this location also causes traffic to be held stationary so will this also be considered for removal in time. More thought should be given to this before the outcome results in another expensive blunder we all regret.

    6. 6
      Downhall Resident:

      Would this £70,000 not be better spend on the actual bus services, rather than just a stop, also why does it cost so much money to move the stop?

      As an alternative use of the money, if there is £70,000 spare in the budget, feel sure that there are others crying out for this sum of money?

    7. 7
      Betty:

      The council need to stand at that bus stop and see the delivery vans and the Post office van stopping opposite it every day, some of them regularly use this spot to offload their products. This does cause a traffic jam and very dangerous with cars then trying to get past the stationary van.

      Very bad and expensive to move the bus stop, it was moved once before because of the zebra crossing, at this rate it will end up in Rayleigh Town. Its a very busy bus stop a lot of people use it waiting there for both the number 3 and the 20 but the bus is never there for longer than a few minutes, not enough to hold the traffic up for long.

    8. 8
      Jane Lydford:

      I have been trying to think of how moving the bus stop to Ferndale Road could actually work in a way that the buses that run along Rawreth Lane and currently turn right and head straight to towards Rayleigh without the company loosing money by loss of passengers that currently be standing at the stop where it currently is.

      The only way that the company would not loose money would be if the council turned the bottom of Ferndale Road into a bus turning point in the same way as there is at the end of the line at Hullbridge (which has to exist otherwise the buses would drive into the river.)

      So what would have to happen would be buses that come out of Rawreth Lane would have to turn left towards Hullbridge. They would then have to stop and turn in to Ferndale Road. Collect passengers and then pull back out into the road and head up towards Rayleigh. In the same way as buses do when they stop at Rayleigh train station.

      So instead of slowing the traffic down briefly to let passengers on / off in the current place (which doesn’t cost £70,000 pounds of our money)the buses that travel along Rawreth Lane will need to hold the traffic up, waiting for a gap in the traffic heading towards Rayleigh and then hold traffic up trying to pull out back into the traffic heading towards Rayleigh.

      I am not trying to be difficult but it really won’t be a case of dig up a bus stop hole (refill the hole) and dig another hole at the bottom of Ferndale Road and fix it in place.

      If the other smaller bus company is to survive it needs to keep the passengers that it currently has. If you take away a bus stop it will loose customers.

      Where the bus stop is, buses traveling from Hullbridge and from Rawreth Lane are able to collect passengers heading towards Rayleigh.

      If you spend the £70,000 on moving the bus stop to Ferndale to still have the same choice of bus heading into Rayleigh, passengers will need to walk up the hill to the top of Downhall Road.

      That is not fair and spending £70,000 on moving a bus stop that doesn’t need moving is just wrong.

    9. 9
      The Mighty Oz:

      Seventy thousand quid !!! for a metal post, a metal sign and some paint on the road. Someone is doing OK out of this……

    10. 10
      A.mattbhews:

      Better to put the money towards the ridiculous price to move utilities at junction of Hullbridge road to enable an improved traffic system there .

    11. 11
      Betty:

      Agree with you The Mighty Oz, think someone added a 0 to the £7,000 by mistake, even this amount seems excessive. Surely it wouldnt cost £70,000, would it!

      Well then, if they do move it to Ferndale then to catch the number 3 which is necessary sometimes when the number 20 comes along full at certain times, normally a Wednesday morning, it seems it will have to be the Downhall Road bus stop, I think though a crossing will have to be put somewhere at the bottom of Downhall as its a terrible place to cross over to the bus stop, traffic coming from several directions, very dangerous and quite a wide road there, sorry cars if you have to wait for people crossing.

      I cant see how buses are a problem anyway, they are never stopped for very long, its lucky for car drivers that there is a mini roundabout and not traffic lights, do I remember that there were traffic lights here before the roundabout.

      I suppose we have no say though about how our money is spent, it could go partly to pay for the dark streets we are to have later.

    12. 12
      Tony Holland-Martin:

      Can the proposed cost be broken down, as I cannot begin to understand these costs. To move one bus stop is going to cost three times more than my loft conversion? Unbelievable, I will move the bus stop for much less than that, however be aware we are planning to have an extension built so the cost will be around £40k so you will be getting a bargain.

      Also, if the is any spare money about, I need to pay for my eldest boys university education.

    13. 13
      colin seagers:

      To make very clear, the £70,000 budget estimate is not simply for “the moving of a bus stop”, it is to provide option D a bus BAY as shown on the map, which is intended to alleviate the tailbacks which can take over ten minutes to clear, a fact recorded on video taken during the EC Highways survey which was shown to Members and public attending the recent Local Highways Panel.
      I am informed by the previous Chairman of the Rochford LHP that Cllr Chris Black was understood previously to support the option decided upon (the Bus Bay) but for some reason reversed his previously stated view and requested his vote against be recorded.

    14. 14
      Chris Black:

      Colin, I supported the proposal to move the bus stop slightly in the other direction, where it could still be used by all buses:

      http://onlinefocus.org/?p=11712

      “We supported two ideas. One was to move, if possible, the bus stop for travel to Rayleigh onto the area of grass verge slightly uphill of the existing stop. The other was to try and reduce congestion caused by vehicles turning right from Hullbridge Road into Hambro Parade. The aim would be to clear the entrance of parked cars, and provide replacement parking on the wide area of pavement.”

      I have never supported moving it down towards Ferndale Road.

      Also, when the initial discussions took place, County Highways were fairly insistent that moving the bus stop would give a significant improvement for motorists . At the latest meeting the officer present said that engineers visiting the site didn’t think moving the bus stop would make much difference….

    15. 15
      Christine Paine:

      Even with a bus bay £70,000 still seems an awful lot of money to spend on something not absolutely necessary, especially at a time of austerity and cut backs.

    16. 16
      Brian Guyett:

      Can I just remind everyone that traffic volumes in the area are likely to increase significantly as all the new homes are built in surrounding areas. We really need an integrated traffic solution that takes this into account, or the £70K could be an even bigger waste of money than it currently seems.

    17. 17
      Deanne:

      I agree with many of the above comments. Moving a bus stop to help the traffic is missing the point. The major cause of traffic is that the roads are full to bursting point! Until we address the real cause of the traffic this seems a waste of money at a time when we should be encouraging people to use public transport……..

    18. 18
      Jane Lydford:

      Personally I don’t actually care whether or not a Councillor voted for / against a bus layby previously. I am actually only interested in what is happening with the bus stop now.

      What I am interested in finding out is whether or not the Councillors Seagers, Hudson, Lucas-Gill, Steptoe, Mountain and Gibbs that made the decision to vote in favour of the removal of the bus stop (that both bus companies used to collected passengers) have made provision to install some form of safe pedestrian crossing to enable people to walk across Hambro Hill / Hullbridge Road to Downhall Road to get to the bus stop that both bus companies collect passengers.

      (As mentioned previously Ferndale Road isn’t on the Rawreth Lane buses bus route)

    19. 19
      The Mighty Oz:

      Colin,

      Given Chris’s response I think a small apology is in order don’t you.

    20. 20
      Greenbelt:

      Cllr,Seagers Re. the quote from post 13 above that states “which is intended to alleviate the tailbacks which can take over ten minutes to clear”, would you please clarify if this means that traffic is at a standstill for more than ten minutes. I ask this as traffic approaching the Hambro mini-roundabout from Rawreth Lane is held up daily for more than an hour in the evening. The Rawreth Lane traffic also has the right of way over the Hullbridge Road Traffic, if it is turning right, so a bus bay where a bus stands for about one minute, will give little or no advantage to traffic from Hullbridge. We are not talking about a Star Lane mini-roundabout here!

    21. 21
      Betty:

      I cant understand this, is it that the bus is stationery at the bus stop then for 10 minutes? How can the bus hold up the traffic for 10 minutes, this is a bus that runs roughly (if you are lucky) every 20 minutes.

      I know that if there is a dedicated pull in for the bus at Ferndale and there is heavy traffic the bus will stop away from the lay-bye so it doesnt loose its place in the queue and any passenger waiting for it will have to go out into the road.

      I still think someone should look at the vans, delivery and PO vans stopping at the bus stop opposite the bus stop into Rayleigh. Its a regular thing to unload goods meant for the Hambro Parade shops there.

      Such a stupid and expensive idea to move a bus stop with a decent crossing over to it when if it is moved to Ferndale people will have to cross Mortimer which can be busy at times or Downhall Road which would be downright dangerous. Who on earth thought it was a bus stopping for a minute or two was holding up the traffic.

    22. 22
      The Mighty Oz:

      Betty,
      You can’t have both ways, if your post was not collected or the shops not replenished then you would not be happy. Where do you suggest delivery vehicles stop ?

    23. 23
      Betty:

      So you think because of vans using the bus stop to offload their goods and they can quite often go into the laybye at Hambro Parade to do this, we should loose a bus stop where it is at the moment, One of the vans I see uses this place even if the Parade is almost empty probably because it is easier.

    24. 24
      The Mighty Oz:

      Deanne @ 17

      Can I ask, do you or your family have a car ?

    25. 25
      Jane Lydford:

      Took me 15 minutes today to cross the junction between walk across Hambro Hill / Hullbridge Road to Downhall Road to wait for a safe break in the traffic to cross i.e. Not running but a lot of people do. This is the junction that people will need to cross to get to the bus stop that both bus companies collect passengers.

      Bus stop issue to one side, it is a really dangerous place to cross. One day someone will be killed trying to cross it. The cars speed up as they go round the corner heading towards Hambro Hill. It is difficult to judge a safe time to cross looking towards the bridge because although you can see cars traveling down the hill, when they are near / under the bridge you can’t see them until they come up.

      Cars seem to (I don’t know if I am factually correct or not because I can’t drive) speed up / travel really fast as they come up from under the bridge.

      I also cross here with my family on the school run when there is a Lollypop Lady / Man and there have been a few times where cars have sped up / not looked and haven’t stopped. It is really dangerous. If it is dangerous with a Lollypop Lady or Man then what do the Council members think it is going to be for people crossing at other times?

      Returning to the £70,000 removal and replacement of a bus stop with bus bay which will make a bus company lose money because it won’t be able to collect the passengers that it currently can. Passengers wanting to catch that bus will be forced to cross at this dangerous junction.

      I would like to know if the Councillors that have taken this decision to remove the bus stop and replace it with the new bus lay by at Ferndale Road have tried to cross at this junction as pedestrians at a variety of times of the day, including early morning when it is dark and people catch the buses to get them to Rayleigh Station.

      I am sorry but it is still a bad decision, a waste of £70,000 which will hurt the local shops at Hambro Parade and the bus company that runs down Rawreth Lane. It is still a dangerous decision because sooner or later someone will get killed or seriously hurt crossing that road.

      Please could these comments be passed to the Councillors Seagers, Hudson, Lucas-Gill, Steptoe, Mountain and Gibbs, I want them to understand because I still don’t understand why a bus delaying traffic for a couple of minutes is worth the risk. Buses briefly hold traffic up all the way along Downhall Road. Why is this bus stop different from those bus stops?

      Why is this 1 stop considered the cause of the traffic problems down Rawreth Lane and along Hullbridge Road. Nobody else believes that, the traffic problems there are far worse than a bus stopping to collect / let off passengers.

    26. 26
      The Mighty Oz:

      People are getting in a real tizz over this one. Leaving aside the cost issue I think its a good idea to move the stop to Ferndale. Buses stopping at the present site DO cause a lot of congestion – this will improve the traffic flow no end.

      Not sure why the Hambro Hill shops will be affected, lets face it, it’s only around 250 metres or so to walk from the present stop to Ferndale. As far as I am aware Mortimer Rd is not a dangerous place to cross.

      Given the perceived deadly dangers of getting on buses locally what do people do when they get off at their destination. Get help to cross the road to come straight back again in case something happens to them ? Sit on the bus until it makes it’s return trip ?

      Calm down dears – it’s only a bus stop….and we are all adults.

    27. 27
      ROG:

      The basic problem is the huge increase in traffic . If you are born on the south of the hullbridge rd it could well be that soon you will never be able to cross to the north. Doomed forever.
      The whole of Rayleigh road network needs re-engineering. Huge tailbacks every morning in downhall road, and what genius designed the bottle neck at the church end of the high street.Sureky traffic for Hockley could move forward continuously.

    28. 28
      Jane Lydford:

      Teenagers catch buses too.

    29. 29
      The Mighty Oz:

      Jane Lydford,

      With respect you have missed the point completely……..

      ROG, what do you think is the root cause of the problem, too many people in a small space ?

    30. 30
      bruce smart:

      The issue of the bus stop is no where near as significant as the hold up in Rawreth Lane each evening especially if Watery Lane is unusable. The issue of a slip road or 200 yard third lane for traffic turning left to Hullbridge is one I have been pushing for a long time. It has been rejected on cost grounds. The bus stop does need to be near the shops. At present there is no bus shelter but the housing and hedging does offer some protection. The new site should really include a shelter as it will be very exposed.

    31. 31
      The Mighty Oz:

      Bruce,

      Why does the stop need to be near shops, does that improve traffic flow ? How will that effect business for the Hambro Hill shops exactly ?

      Agreed a slip road would be great.

    32. 32
      bruce smart:

      People from Hullbridge come in by bus to use the Post Office at Hambro Parade. Some then go on into Rayleigh. If stop is moved it will be 2 to 300 yards away, not far in July but on a cold miserable January not so good. Queues in town centre P.O. can be awlful.

    33. 33
      The Mighty Oz:

      Bruce,

      That argument is a complete non starter. So we would rather have, over the course of a day, hundreds of people held up in traffic with all the increased emmisions etc so that a few people don’t have to walk 200yds.

      Complete madness.

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